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comentariu rapcea.ro: un postac mi-a trimis pe fb un articol foarte interesant pe tema asa-ziselor boli psihice si a modului in care le vad samanii. Intrucât mi-a fost lene la ora asta să mai traduc articolul, l-am preluat direct, cu citarea sursei, ca de obicei. Enjoi !

Stephanie Marohn with Malidoma Patrice Somé
Waking Times

The Shamanic View of Mental Illness

In the shamanic view, mental illness signals “the birth of a healer,” explains Malidoma Patrice Somé. Thus, mental disorders are spiritual emergencies, spiritual crises, and need to be regarded as such to aid the healer in being born.

What those in the West view as mental illness, the Dagara people regard as “good news from the other world.” The person going through the crisis has been chosen as a medium for a message to the community that needs to be communicated from the spirit realm. “Mental disorder, behavioral disorder of all kinds, signal the fact that two obviously incompatible energies have merged into the same field,” says Dr. Somé. These disturbances result when the person does not get assistance in dealing with the presence of the energy from the spirit realm.

One of the things Dr. Somé encountered when he first came to the United States in 1980 for graduate study was how this country deals with mental illness. When a fellow student was sent to a mental institute due to “nervous depression,” Dr. Somé went to visit him.

“I was so shocked. That was the first time I was brought face to face with what is done here to people exhibiting the same symptoms I’ve seen in my village.” What struck Dr. Somé was that the attention given to such symptoms was based on pathology, on the idea that the condition is something that needs to stop. This was in complete opposition to the way his culture views such a situation. As he looked around the stark ward at the patients, some in straitjackets, some zoned out on medications, others screaming, he observed to himself, “So this is how the healers who are attempting to be born are treated in this culture. What a loss! What a loss that a person who is finally being aligned with a power from the other world is just being wasted.”

Another way to say this, which may make more sense to the Western mind, is that we in the West are not trained in how to deal or even taught to acknowledge the existence of psychic phenomena, the spiritual world. In fact, psychic abilities are denigrated. When energies from the spiritual world emerge in a Western psyche, that individual is completely unequipped to integrate them or even recognize what is happening. The result can be terrifying. Without the proper context for and assistance in dealing with the breakthrough from another level of reality, for all practical purposes, the person is insane. Heavy dosing with anti-psychotic drugs compounds the problem and prevents the integration that could lead to soul development and growth in the individual who has received these energies.

On the mental ward, Dr Somé saw a lot of “beings” hanging around the patients, “entities” that are invisible to most people but that shamans and psychics are able to see. “They were causing the crisis in these people,” he says. It appeared to him that these beings were trying to get the medications and their effects out of the bodies of the people the beings were trying to merge with, and were increasing the patients’ pain in the process. “The beings were acting almost like some kind of excavator in the energy field of people. They were really fierce about that. The people they were doing that to were just screaming and yelling,” he said. He couldn’t stay in that environment and had to leave.

In the Dagara tradition, the community helps the person reconcile the energies of both worlds–”the world of the spirit that he or she is merged with, and the village and community.” That person is able then to serve as a bridge between the worlds and help the living with information and healing they need. Thus, the spiritual crisis ends with the birth of another healer. “The other world’s relationship with our world is one of sponsorship,” Dr. Somé explains. “More often than not, the knowledge and skills that arise from this kind of merger are a knowledge or a skill that is provided directly from the other world.”

The beings who were increasing the pain of the inmates on the mental hospital ward were actually attempting to merge with the inmates in order to get messages through to this world. The people they had chosen to merge with were getting no assistance in learning how to be a bridge between the worlds and the beings’ attempts to merge were thwarted. The result was the sustaining of the initial disorder of energy and the aborting of the birth of a healer.

“The Western culture has consistently ignored the birth of the healer,” states Dr. Somé. “Consequently, there will be a tendency from the other world to keep trying as many people as possible in an attempt to get somebody’s attention. They have to try harder.” The spirits are drawn to people whose senses have not been anesthetized. “The sensitivity is pretty much read as an invitation to come in,” he notes.

Those who develop so-called mental disorders are those who are sensitive, which is viewed in Western culture as oversensitivity. Indigenous cultures don’t see it that way and, as a result, sensitive people don’t experience themselves as overly sensitive. In the West, “it is the overload of the culture they’re in that is just wrecking them,” observes Dr. Somé. The frenetic pace, the bombardment of the senses, and the violent energy that characterize Western culture can overwhelm sensitive people.

Schizophrenia and Foreign Energy

With schizophrenia, there is a special “receptivity to a flow of images and information, which cannot be controlled,” stated Dr. Somé. “When this kind of rush occurs at a time that is not personally chosen, and particularly when it comes with images that are scary and contradictory, the person goes into a frenzy.”

What is required in this situation is first to separate the person’s energy from the extraneous foreign energies, by using shamanic practice (what is known as a “sweep”) to clear the latter out of the individual’s aura. With the clearing of their energy field, the person no longer picks up a flood of information and so no longer has a reason to be scared and disturbed, explains Dr. Somé.

Then it is possible to help the person align with the energy of the spirit being attempting to come through from the other world and give birth to the healer. The blockage of that emergence is what creates problems. “The energy of the healer is a high-voltage energy,” he observes. “When it is blocked, it just burns up the person. It’s like a short-circuit. Fuses are blowing. This is why it can be really scary, and I understand why this culture prefers to confine these people. Here they are yelling and screaming, and they’re put into a straitjacket. That’s a sad image.” Again, the shamanic approach is to work on aligning the energies so there is no blockage, “fuses” aren’t blowing, and the person can become the healer they are meant to be.

It needs to be noted at this point, however, that not all of the spirit beings that enter a person’s energetic field are there for the purposes of promoting healing. There are negative energies as well, which are undesirable presences in the aura. In those cases, the shamanic approach is to remove them from the aura, rather than work to align the discordant energies

Alex: Crazy in the USA, Healer in Africa

To test his belief that the shamanic view of mental illness holds true in the Western world as well as in indigenous cultures, Dr. Somé took a mental patient back to Africa with him, to his village. “I was prompted by my own curiosity to find out whether there’s truth in the universality that mental illness could be connected with an alignment with a being from another world,” says Dr. Somé.

Alex was an 18-year-old American who had suffered a psychotic break when he was 14. He had hallucinations, was suicidal, and went through cycles of dangerously severe depression. He was in a mental hospital and had been given a lot of drugs, but nothing was helping. “The parents had done everything–unsuccessfully,” says Dr. Somé. “They didn’t know what else to do.”

With their permission, Dr. Somé took their son to Africa. “After eight months there, Alex had become quite normal, Dr. Somé reports. He was even able to participate with healers in the business of healing; sitting with them all day long and helping them, assisting them in what they were doing with their clients . . . . He spent about four years in my village.” Alex stayed by choice, not because he needed more healing. He felt, “much safer in the village than in America.”

To bring his energy and that of the being from the spiritual realm into alignment, Alex went through a shamanic ritual designed for that purpose, although it was slightly different from the one used with the Dagara people. “He wasn’t born in the village, so something else applied. But the result was similar, even though the ritual was not literally the same,” explains Dr. Somé. The fact that aligning the energy worked to heal Alex demonstrated to Dr. Somé that the connection between other beings and mental illness is indeed universal.

After the ritual, Alex began to share the messages that the spirit being had for this world. Unfortunately, the people he was talking to didn’t speak English (Dr. Somé was away at that point). The whole experience led, however, to Alex’s going to college to study psychology. He returned to the United States after four years because “he discovered that all the things that he needed to do had been done, and he could then move on with his life.”

The last that Dr. Somé heard was that Alex was in graduate school in psychology at Harvard. No one had thought he would ever be able to complete undergraduate studies, much less get an advanced degree.

Dr. Somé sums up what Alex’s mental illness was all about: “He was reaching out. It was an emergency call. His job and his purpose was to be a healer. He said no one was paying attention to that.”

After seeing how well the shamanic approach worked for Alex, Dr. Somé concluded that spirit beings are just as much an issue in the West as in his community in Africa. “Yet the question still remains, the answer to this problem must be found here, instead of having to go all the way overseas to seek the answer. There has to be a way in which a little bit of attention beyond the pathology of this whole experience leads to the possibility of coming up with the proper ritual to help people.

Longing for Spiritual Connection

A common thread that Dr. Somé has noticed in “mental” disorders in the West is “a very ancient ancestral energy that has been placed in stasis, that finally is coming out in the person.” His job then is to trace it back, to go back in time to discover what that spirit is. In most cases, the spirit is connected to nature, especially with mountains or big rivers, he says.

In the case of mountains, as an example to explain the phenomenon, “it’s a spirit of the mountain that is walking side by side with the person and, as a result, creating a time-space distortion that is affecting the person caught in it.” What is needed is a merger or alignment of the two energies, “so the person and the mountain spirit become one.” Again, the shaman conducts a specific ritual to bring about this alignment.

Dr. Somé believes that he encounters this situation so often in the United States because “most of the fabric of this country is made up of the energy of the machine, and the result of that is the disconnection and the severing of the past. You can run from the past, but you can’t hide from it.” The ancestral spirit of the natural world comes visiting. “It’s not so much what the spirit wants as it is what the person wants,” he says. “The spirit sees in us a call for something grand, something that will make life meaningful, and so the spirit is responding to that.”

That call, which we don’t even know we are making, reflects “a strong longing for a profound connection, a connection that transcends materialism and possession of things and moves into a tangible cosmic dimension. Most of this longing is unconscious, but for spirits, conscious or unconscious doesn’t make any difference.” They respond to either.

As part of the ritual to merge the mountain and human energy, those who are receiving the “mountain energy” are sent to a mountain area of their choice, where they pick up a stone that calls to them. They bring that stone back for the rest of the ritual and then keep it as a companion; some even carry it around with them. “The presence of the stone does a lot in tuning the perceptive ability of the person,” notes Dr. Somé. “They receive all kinds of information that they can make use of, so it’s like they get some tangible guidance from the other world as to how to live their life.”

When it is the “river energy,” those being called go to the river and, after speaking to the river spirit, find a water stone to bring back for the same kind of ritual as with the mountain spirit.

“People think something extraordinary must be done in an extraordinary situation like this,” he says. That’s not usually the case. Sometimes it is as simple as carrying a stone.

A Sacred Ritual Approach to Mental Illness

One of the gifts a shaman can bring to the Western world is to help people rediscover ritual, which is so sadly lacking. “The abandonment of ritual can be devastating. From the spiritual view, ritual is inevitable and necessary if one is to live,” Dr. Somé writes in Ritual: Power, Healing, and Community. “To say that ritual is needed in the industrialized world is an understatement. We have seen in my own people that it is probably impossible to live a sane life without it.”

Dr. Somé did not feel that the rituals from his traditional village could simply be transferred to the West, so over his years of shamanic work here, he has designed rituals that meet the very different needs of this culture. Although the rituals change according to the individual or the group involved, he finds that there is a need for certain rituals in general.

One of these involves helping people discover that their distress is coming from the fact that they are “called by beings from the other world to cooperate with them in doing healing work.” Ritual allows them to move out of the distress and accept that calling.

Another ritual need relates to initiation. In indigenous cultures all over the world, young people are initiated into adulthood when they reach a certain age. The lack of such initiation in the West is part of the crisis that people are in here, says Dr. Somé. He urges communities to bring together “the creative juices of people who have had this kind of experience, in an attempt to come up with some kind of an alternative ritual that would at least begin to put a dent in this kind of crisis.”

Another ritual that repeatedly speaks to the needs of those coming to him for help entails making a bonfire, and then putting into the bonfire “items that are symbolic of issues carried inside the individuals . . . It might be the issues of anger and frustration against an ancestor who has left a legacy of murder and enslavement or anything, things that the descendant has to live with,” he explains. “If these are approached as things that are blocking the human imagination, the person’s life purpose, and even the person’s view of life as something that can improve, then it makes sense to begin thinking in terms of how to turn that blockage into a roadway that can lead to something more creative and more fulfilling.”

The example of issues with an ancestors touches on rituals designed by Dr. Somé that address a serious dysfunction in Western society and in the process “trigger enlightenment” in participants. These are ancestral rituals, and the dysfunction they are aimed at is the mass turning-of-the-back on ancestors. Some of the spirits trying to come through, as described earlier, may be “ancestors who want to merge with a descendant in an attempt to heal what they weren’t able to do while in their physical body.”

“Unless the relationship between the living and the dead is in balance, chaos ensues,” he says. “The Dagara believe that, if such an imbalance exists, it is the duty of the living to heal their ancestors. If these ancestors are not healed, their sick energy will haunt the souls and psyches of those who are responsible for helping them.” The rituals focus on healing the relationship with our ancestors, both specific issues of an individual ancestor and the larger cultural issues contained in our past. Dr. Somé has seen extraordinary healing occur at these rituals.

Taking a sacred ritual approach to mental illness rather than regarding the person as a pathological case gives the person affected–and indeed the community at large–the opportunity to begin looking at it from that vantage point too, which leads to “a whole plethora of opportunities and ritual initiative that can be very, very beneficial to everyone present,” states. Dr. Somé.

Excerpted from:  The Natural Medicine Guide to Schizophrenia, or The Natural Medicine Guide to Bi-polar Disorder, pages 178-189, Stephanie Marohn (featuring Malidoma Patrice Somé).

sursa: și multe alte articole interesante, pe wakingtimes.com

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9 Responses to “What a Shaman Sees in A Mental Hospital”

  1. Flagg says:

    Ideea ca orice bolnav psihic occidental ar fi de fapt un potential saman, cu vocatia sa spirituala blocata de catre cultura moderna, este o exagerare care ar trebui sa fie evidenta oricui a vazut la viata sa mai multe cazuri din astea nefericite.

    Insa samanismul chiar poate furniza punctul de plecare pentru niste discutii foarte interesante in ce priveste modul in care occidentalii privesc problema tulburarilor psihice si incearca sa o rezolve. Aspectul cel mai evident in cazul asta este cel privind faptul ca in timp ce in civilizatia occidentala persoanele cu anumite probleme nu reusesc de regula sa se integreze cumva in plan social in mod satisfacator, in societatile tribale li se gaseste si acestora un loc al lor propriu si o utilitate pentru viata comunitatii(cel putin o utilitate presupusa a fi reala, daca nu chiar reala in mod adevarat).
    Asta e chestia cea mai evidenta cand se fac astfel de comparatii intre cele doua tipuri societati. Dar mai exista si alte aspecte foarte interesante si chiar foarte “puzzling”(nu gasesc acum un cuvant mai potrivit in romana).

    De exemplu, unul dintre specialistii occidentali cei mai buni in domeniul samanismului, Michael Harner, a petrecut ceva mai mult timp cu indienii amazonieni din triburile Jivaro si Conibo. Si el semnala la un moment dat, daca tin bine minte, ca la indienii Jivaro aproape un sfert din populatie poate fi considerata ca fiind compusa din samani si asta in mare parte pentru ca ei au obiceiul de a consuma diverse plante halucinogene inca din copilaria cea mai frageda. Au chiar obiceiul de a da copiilor mici sa consume niste preparate din Datura pentru a ii obisnui de la varste foarte fragede sa aiba “viziuni”.
    Ori chestia asta pentru un psihiatru occidental mai materialist ar putea indica faptul ca, din punctul lui de vedere, triburile alea sunt compuse cel putin pe sfert din psihotici si “junkies”. Chestie care l-ar putea lasa destul de perplex, pentru ca in civilizatia occidentala daca un oras ar avea un sfert din populatie cu astfel de probleme, orasul ala ar trebui sa cada destul de rapid intr-un stadiu de anarhie(Datura cel putin este renumita pentru faptul ca poate cauza “bad trip”-uri – pentru comparatie, ganditi-va cum ar fi ca intr-un oras occidental un sfert din locuitori sa fie consumatori frecventi de PCP 😀 ).
    Ba mai mult decat atat, indienii aia amazonieni traiesc intr-un mediu natural cu mult mai ostil si periculos decat cel al occidentalului de azi. Acolo in jungla poti fi ucis nu doar de catre animale mari ca jaguarii sau crocodili, ci si de miriade de insecte minuscule care fie sunt veninoase, fie iti pot baga sub piele oua din care sa iasa larve care sa te manance de viu etc. etc. etc. Daca adoptam din nou punctul de vedere al psihiatrului occidental materialist cuplat cu un darwinism hardcore a la Dawkins, atunci indienii aia ar fi trebuit sa dispara cum mult timp in urma. Fie ar fi trebuit sa moara rupandu-si, de exemplu, gaturile prin vreo prapastie alergand dupa cai verzi pe pereti, fie urmarind caprioare-spirite ireale si dand cu nasul in schimb de jaguari foarte reali si materiali etc. Dar nu numai ca respectivii indieni nu au disparut in astfel de conditii ci, din contra, au devenit foarte bine adaptati la mediul ala natural atat de ostil.
    Harner mai mentiona, la un moment dat, daca tin eu bine minte, ca observase la respectivii indieni un obicei care ar fi putut crea multa confuzie in capul unui observator occidental, si anume cel de a amesteca in mod frecvent in conversatii informatii ce tin atat de realitatea mundana cat si de “realitatea non-ordinara”(indiferent daca aceasta ar avea vreo existenta reala in vreun plan “subtil” sau ar fi pur si simplu o creatie mentala individuala -lucrul asta conteaza mai putin acum). De exemplu, un Jivaro intors de la vanatoare ar putea sa relateze cum a parcurs un traseu real si a vanat niste maimute cu sarbacana si pe parcurs sa spuna si ca a vazut pe acolo te miri ce animale care de fapt sunt “spirite” – pentru observatorul occidental fie ar fi foarte greu sa inteleaga care informatii sunt reale si care “halucinatorii”, fie daca ar putea totusi sa le deosebeasca povestea ca intreg ar putea pastra un aspect oniric-delirant. Insa indienii respectivi participanti la o astfel de conversatie inteleg imediat cand e vorba, de exemplu, de o maimuta reala si cand e vorba de o “maimuta-spirit”, chiar daca din punct de vedere strict lingvistic cuvintele folosite sunt aceleasi. Ori lucrul asta indica faptul ca indienii respectivi au o capacitate foarte crescuta de a discerne intre respectivele tipuri de informatii, de a discerne, din punctul de vedere al psihiatrului occidental materialist, intre realitate si iluzie(ori tocmai incapacitatea de a discerne in acest mod informatiile este aspectul cel mai caracteristic de regula la psihoticul occidental).

    Mai mult, indienii respectivi au reguli si ritualuri care rglementeaza in mod destul de strict modul in care permit ca anumite tipuri de experiente “halucinatorii” sa aiba loc – de exemplu, cand un adult consuma Datura o poate face retragandu-se intr-un loc mai ferit de potentiali pradatori de talie mare, insotit de alt membru al tribului care pe perioada respectiva se abtine sa consume si el planta si sta de paza. Experientele obtinute astfel au pana la urma niste influente si asupra vietii lor obisnuite, de exemplu credintele rezultate din “viziunile” lor ii fac sa considre ca aproape orice deces prin boala ar fi de fapt rezultatul unui act magic al unor inaimici, ceea ce conduce apoi la razbunari in serie(indienii Jivaro sunt renumiti, sau macar erau, ca fiind vanatori de capete cu o rata mare de mortalitate prin omucidere in randul barbatilor), dar dintr-un punct de vedere darwinist mai cinic violenta respectiva ridicata ar fi putut contribui cumva la mentinerea populatiei lor in niste limite corespunzatoare resurselor de hrana sau de alt tip din zona(asta macar ca idee, pentru ca deja de mai mult timp stilul lor de viata s-a schimbat considerabil in urma contactului cu occidentalii si unele lucruri nu mai pot fi observate sau chiar testate cumva in prezent).

    Practic, adoptand din nou de dragul discutiei punctul de vedere al unui psihiatru occidental materialist(joc un pic rolul avocatului diavolului in cazul asta, pentru cine nu a sesizat deja lucrul asta, si exagerez in mod voit unele chestii pentru a fi mai vizibile), indienii respectivi au reusit sa isi creeze cumva un soi de psihoza colectiva indusa ca urmare a consumului de droguri, dar o psihoza ordonata, ritualizata si reglementata de reguli astfel incat nu ea nu doar sa nu fie periculoasa pentru supravietuirea lor ci chiar sa le faciliteze cumva supravietuirea in mediul ala natural dificil(chestie care e chiar uimitoare daca stai sa te gandesti un pic mai bine la implicatiile sale 🙂 ).

    Dar apropo de problema capacitatii de a discerne intre halucinatii(sau pseudo-halucinatii, in functie de crede fiecare dintre voi) si informatiile ce tin de realitatea obisnuita, nu stiu cati dintre voi au vazut “A Beautiful Mind” cu Russell Crowe in rolul principal. Pentru cei care nu au vazut filmul, el este bazat pe povestea reala a unui matematician genial dar schizofrenic. Respectivul savant incearca la un moment dat sa isi rezolve problema apeland la medicatia existenta pe vremea sa, dar ajunge la concluzia ca aceasta are efecte secundare indezirabile din punctul lui de vedere, asa ca decide in final sa invete cum sa traiasca cu halucinatiile sale astfel incat acestea sa nu ii afecteze integrarea sa in societate si viata de familie. Ori cam ceva de genul asta reusesc de multe ori sa faca membrii mai “vizionari” ai societatilor tribale traditionale, dar la un nivel nu doar individual, ci la unul structurat in plan social in mod traditional(ba mai mult, in mod foarte des anumite tipuri de experiente nu sunt doar tolerate ci sunt cautate in mod voit si chiar provocate, iar asta intr-un mod in care viata celorlalti membrii ai tribului sa nu fie pusa in pericol – lucru care, din nou, este uimitor daca incerci sa il privesti chiar si dintr-o perspectiva pur darwinista materialista 🙂 ). Capacitatea asta traditionala de a integra in mod util social anumite tipuri de experiente este probabil rezultatul unui sir lung de incercari si “experimente” derulate timp de zeci de mii de ani sau poate chiar sute de mii de ani incoace, cam de prin Paleolitic(prin comparatie, psihiatria moderna areo vechime de doar vreo doua sute de ani, asa ca nu e de mirare totusi faptul ca ea nu a gasit inca niste modalitati complet satisfacatoare de a rezolva cumva problema integrarii sociale a persoanelor cu anumite tipuri de probleme, mai ales ca si societatea in ansamblul sau s-a schimbat foarte mult in intervalul respectiv si se schimba in mod continuu si accelerat in continuare). Dar asta nu inseamna in mod neaparat ca samanismul ar detine in continuare toate raspunsurile necesare – el a detinut si detine probabil inca raspunsurile utile pentru supravietuirea populatiilor tribale traditionale, numai ca lumea s-a “miscat” intre timp(ca sa fac si o aluzie cumva la universul din cartile unui scriitor preferat al lui MR… 😉 ).

  2. Flagg says:

    Imi cer scuze pentru erorile de tastare din mesajul de mai sus. M-am grabit si l-am postat fara sa il mai verific de posibile greseli, cum fac de obicei.

  3. Flagg says:

    Apropo de samanism si Michael Harner, cei de la editura Herald au tradus in romana si publicat recent o carte a lui, poate cea mai buna existenta pana in momentul asta, dupa parerea mea, in ce priveste prezentarea partii practice a traditiilor samanice(pe parte teoretica sunt de parere ca Eliade ramane cel mai bun – Harner in schimb a ales sa fie un practician si spre deosebire de Castaneda s-a abtinut sa bage si fictiune pentru a-si face cartile mai atractive pentru publicul larg):

    http://www.edituraherald.ro/carti/calea-samanului-detail

    Tot Harner da niste informatii foarte interesante si prin alte carti care nu stiu sa fi fost traduse si in romana(de exemplu o carte mai veche, “Hallucinogens and Shamanism”, aparuta la Oxford University Press).

  4. Flagg says:

    As vrea sa fac o precizare, ca sa nu fiu inteles gresit.
    Sunt de parere ca si psihiatria si psihologia din vremurile noastre nu detin inca toate raspunsurile necesare pentru rezolvarea unor probleme, dar cu toate astea in rastimpul lor scurt(la scara istorica) de existenta au reusit sa adune un ansamblu vast de informatii foarte valoroase care le erau practic inaccesibile oamenilor din vechime din cauza ca le lipseau “uneltele” si metodele necesare.
    A-ti manifesta aprecierea pentru modul in care oamenii din comunitatile tribale arhaice au reusit sa rezolve macar partial unele probleme in conformitate cu cerintele mediului lor natural si social particular nu inseamna si sa adopti acum ideea ca ar trebui sa abandonam tot ceea ce a aflat intre timp stiinta actuala si sa ne intoarcem la ideile si practicile epocii de piatra.
    Dar trecutul poate oferi intotdeauna indicii utile pentru rezolvarea problemelor prezentului sau viitorului si cel mai bine este ca el sa nu fie ignorat ci studiat cu atentie pentru a cauta tot ceea ce poate el oferi in mod util ca informatie.

  5. mac gregor says:

    Flagg, nu stiu daca esti la curent cu descoperirea faptului ca societatile stravechi erau mult mai violente decat cele moderne. E verificat statistic, chiar daca poate contraintuitiv. Un tip lovit de droguri se potrivea mai bine haosului de atunci, ba poate era mai relaxat.

    Parerea mea e ca acum pretentiile sociale au crescut exponential, pentru ca nu poti avea o civilizatie fara efortul de a o intretine. De exemplu unui indian din Amazon, adus de un prieten la Paris, nu i-a venit sa creada ca acela trebuie sa lucreze 8 ore pe zi.

  6. Aand says:

    Specializarea mea este psihologia clinica asa ca pot cred formula cateva observatii. Psiholgia spune ca orice afectiune sau boală psihică, cu excepția celor ce au cauze fiziologice reprezintă de fapt o formă de adaptare la mediu. Practic mintea, supusa unor stimuli ce nu-i mai poate gestiona eficient gaseste noi forme de adaptare, defectuoase pentru individ in relatia lui cu lumea. Intelegerea faptului ca tulburarea sau boala psihica sunt in primul rand o forma de adaptare a creierului la o realitate ce e perceputa drept ostila de organism este esentiala : elimina frica, rusinea, vinovatia care toate blochează procesul terapeutic. Una dintre definitiile cele mai simple ale crimei, din psihologia judiciara este “Crima- o modalitate de rezolvare a unui conflict”. Majoritatea ritualurilor samanice urmaresc reconcilierea lumii spiritelor cu lumea mundana. Tulburarea psihica apare din incercarea reconcilierii organismului- deci si a mintii, cu cu aceeasi lume. Deasemnea trebuie să se facă diferența dintre halucinații și iluzii, spre exemplu. Primele nu au niciun suport în stimulii existenți, iluziile sunt o (re)interpretare deformată a unor stimuli. Sunt multe de spus despre psihoze, mai ales cele cu substrat religios.
    Nu doar șamanii și triburile au experiente psihotice de natură religioasă sau culturală. Spațiul occidental consemnează astfel de cazuri. Avem exemplul psihozei lui Jung, atunci când s-a psihanalizat pe sine.
    Exemplele cele mai notabile în spațiul occidental sunt însă sindromul Ierusalim – si va recomand tuturor sa urmariti subiectul,sindromul Stendhal sau sindromul Paris întâlnit în cazul japonezilor, acestea din urma culturale. Trebuie precizat că aceste sindroame apar și în cazul unor persoane care nu au antecedente psihiatrice așadar nu există o legătură între o condiție anterioară patologică.
    Sindromul Iersualim a fost consemnat in cazul creștinilor, musulmanilor și evreilor. Există și astăzi o dezbatere pe marginea motivelor pentru care sindromul Iersualim se dminiuează odată cu îndepărtarea de oraș și ce anume îl cauzează.
    Dacă tot am dat-o cu Ierusalimul am să închei cu versurile lui Macedonski din Noapte de Decemvrie despre Mecca: Ca gândul aleargă spre alba nălucă/Spre poamele de-aur din visu-i ceresc…/
    Cămila, cât poate, grăbește să-l ducă…/Dar visu-i, nu este un vis omenesc/Și poamele de-aur lucesc — strălucesc/Iar alba cetate rămâne nălucă./Rămâne nălucă, dar tot o zărește/Cu porți de topaze, cu turnuri de-argint,/Și tot către ele s-ajungă zorește,/Cu toate că știe prea bine că-l mint/Și porți de topaze, și turnuri de-argint.

  7. Flagg says:

    @mac gregor
    Da, poti vedea foarte usor ca cei din vechime erau mult mai violenti decat oamenii din prezent fie si doar daca citesti textele mitologice si religioase mai vechi. Nu doar Vechiul Testament include pasaje din alea sangeroase care il preocupa atat de mult pe Ramo, dar si mitologia greaca si cea indiana si cea scandinava includ multe elemente din astea cu caracter violent.

    S-ar putea sa fi existat totusi si ceva exceptii in vechime, oricat de ciudat ar parea lucrul asta. Am dat deja in alta parte exemplul Norte Chico/Supe Caral. Aia e, daca am tinut bine minte, cea mai veche civilizatie mai avansata din toata America precolumbiana si ar putea sa fie, teoretic, civilizatia-mama cel putin pentru zona andina(in zona mezoamericana primele orase parca au aparut mai tarziu si in mod cel putin aparent independent). Ori, avand in vedere caracterul foarte violent al celorlalte civilizatii andine care i-au succedat, arheologii care a dezgropat orasul Caral se asteptau, in mod logic, sa gaseasca multe urme de activitate razboinica si de sacrificii umane. Si, spre surprinderea lor, n-au gasit nici macar urme de fortificatii care ar fi trebuit sa constituie regula pentru un oras de marimea aia. Chestie care i-a lasat perplecsi pentru ca orasul, asa cum il reconstituisera ei, era de fapt expus fata de orice potential atac al unei presupuse populatii ostile(iar orasul a fost locuit in conditiile astea timp de vreo jumatate de mileniu). Si n-au gasit in el nici urmele, atat de tipice civilizatiilor ulterioare din zona, ale sacrificiilor umane derulate pe scara larga.
    Acum asta nu inseamna in mod necesar ca acolo nu au existat deloc razboinici sau ca nu se practicau ocazional sacrificii umane, dar cel putin scara la care s-ar fi putut desfasura astfel de activitati, din ceea ce indica urmele ramase, ofera un contrast mare cu ceea ce e vizibil cam la toate civilizatiile ulterioare din zona.
    Dar in schimb amerindienii din civilizatia respectiva trageau pe nas(la propriu) substante halucinogene. 🙂

  8. Flagg says:

    Erata: “arheologii care au dezgropat orasul Caral”

  9. MR says:

    Ar fi interesant sa auzim si opinia lui IntenseLight pe aceasta tema, ca tot are aceeasi formare de psiholog. Din pacate, stiu ca este foarte ocupat cu munca, ma tot ”ameninta” de luni de zile cu un nou material… care nu mai vine

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